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Transcript: How Canadian Children’s TV Punches Above its Weight

Artifactuality, season 2, episode 8.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:00:02] On this episode of Artifactuality, we bring you some Canadian TV nostalgia and the story of how one actor inspired a generation of young viewers. My name is Kim Thuy. On this podcast from the Canadian Museum of History, together we explore what objects and stories from the past can tell us about who we are today. What will resonate tomorrow? How will the events unfolding around us be remembered in the future?

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:00:43] In the late 1970s, when I moved to Quebec from Vietnam, I didn’t speak French. I started to learn the language by watching the kids television show Passe Partout, and to this day, anytime I see a reference to that show, I get a warm, sentimental feeling. Suddenly, I’m transported to my family home watching puppets on television.

Dr. Olivier Coté [00:01:08] It’s the same phenomenon that happens with me. I’m originally close to Quebec City, and when I see Bonhomme Carnaval, for example, I had the same child reaction to the character.

Kim Thuy [00:01:19] The same joy.

Dr. Olivier Coté [00:01:21] Same joy. Exactly.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:01:23] That’s Dr. Olivier Coté, the Canadian Museum of History’s Curator of Media and Communications. Olivier remembers when the museum acquired a costume from The Polka Dot Door, a Canadian children’s TV show that ran for almost 30 years. The Polka Dot Door featured two hosts and a mischievous kangaroo named Polkaroo. When Polkaroo’s costume came to the museum, Olivier says staff members were thrilled.

Dr. Olivier Coté [00:01:53] It’s like if Polkaroo brought back their own childhood and it was a magical experience for them. So people just went in the same room and looked at him, and they were so joyful about that and so excited. And so I was so excited as a curator, because it’s such a part of Canadian pop culture, such an iconic character. So for me, like seeing people just saw Polkaroo and it brought back this child innocent joy in them.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:02:24] Olivier researches the history of children’s television. He’s found that Canadian-made kids TV shows have shaped children’s media around the world for decades. Shows like Fraggle Rock, You Can’t Do That on Television, and Caillou have become international hits.

Dr. Olivier Coté [00:02:44] Canadian TV – children’s TV is really recognized as a very progressive, very educative, slow paced, TV. And it started back in the 1950s. Up to today, really, Canada is recognized as a place where we are like a creative, for producing children’s TV. And you can expand that because of the TV environment of Canada with CBC Radio-Canada, TVOntario, Tele Quebec. We have public funded corporations, and as such, Canada was the place to be to produce children’s TV, and it still is and was recognized as a place for inclusion diversity. And we were really progressive in that matter.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:03:37] For example, in the 70’s when The Polka Dot Door debuted, it featured actors from different racial backgrounds. Then in the early 80’s, a program called Today’s Special hit the airwaves. It was the first kid’s program to feature a person of color in a permanent role, and it was played by the late Nerene Virgin. Her character, Jodie, was a department store display designer who was kept company by Muffy the Mouse, Sam the Security Guard, and Jeff, a mannequin who came to life. Here’s a clip from an episode where Jodie is trying to decide whether she should leave her job for a better one, in a different city. Jodie looks directly at the camera and shares her feelings with viewers.

Jodie [00:04:26] It’s like school. You might be having a lot of fun in first grade, but you can’t just stay there because you’re having a great time. You have to move on to second grade and third grade. Hey, that’s how we learn. And that’s why I decided I’m going to take this job. I will be really sad saying goodbye to all my friends, but we have some wonderful memories and just thinking about those will make me happy. Now I have to go do some shopping and I have to do my laundry. Oh, would you mind coming along with me? You could kind of cheer me up, give me somebody to talk to.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:05:04] This clip is part of a continuous shot that lasts more than two minutes. Hard to imagine seeing that on a kid’s TV show today. As you heard, Jodie speaks to the viewer like they’re her friend. It’s an example of the slow pace, a thoughtful approach Canadian children’s TV became known for. But Olivier quickly notes it took until the late 70’s for producers to start casting diverse actors.

Dr. Olivier Coté [00:05:33] You have to go back in the 1950s, 1960s and early 1970s, you know, when you were a child in Canada, you watch children’s TV and typically all the hosts were white people. So let’s say you were a child from a marginalized community, a black person, for example, and you watch a show, you were not able to recognize yourself in these characters because you felt you were excluded somehow. Some of the iconic shows like Mister Dress up, friendly giant, Maggie Muggins, Romper Room, like all the hosts were white. And starting with Polka Dot Door, and then with Today’s Special, you started to have all that had different backgrounds, and it was such an important cornerstone because it’s not what we would call today “tokenism”, where you just put something with a different person because you need to do that. It was more genuine than that, you know, it was genuine diversity and inclusion.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:06:37] That meant a lot to Nerene Virgin. Last year at a Canadian Museum of History event, Nerene reflected on her memories of watching TV as a kid in Hamilton, Ontario.

Nerene Virgin [00:06:49] When I watched children’s television, most of the images that I saw were derogatory. They made fun of my African ancestry. I grew up in an era of, you know, Aunt Jemima pancakes and pickaninny gum, which was certainly fodder for the kids on the schoolyard to make fun of you. So my big influence was my mother and my grandmother when I looked to them. And they taught me about dignity. About pride. My grandmother used to say, you come into this world with your pride and your dignity and your grace intact, and you should leave this world with those three things, unless you choose to give them away along the way.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:07:38] Nerene Virgin, in turn, inspired other Black Canadian kids. When she passed away in 2023, content creator Adrienne Young shared a touching tribute on social media. Adrienne is a lifelong fan of Today’s Special.

Adrienne Young [00:07:51] As a black Canadian little girl, I just always remember watching the show. She worked in a department store. You know, she was a black lady. We all had a Jeri curl back then, so, like, seeing my hair on somebody else’s hair, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, they’re on TV. How is this possible?” There’s just a familiarity with her. The other main character was a mannequin that came to life. Everything was larger than life there was puppets. But she was always just the voice of reason. You felt safe watching her. And I think as someone who is a latchkey kid, there is something about just having this adult that reminded you of family. That just made you feel safe in the moments that you were watching it. That’s how it felt for me.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:08:37] Olivier Cote says the portrayal of Jodie on Today’s Special also stood out because the show never made race part of Jodie’s storyline. Back in the 80s, people of color were often cast in supporting roles.

Dr. Olivier Coté [00:08:53] The idea was not to say, oh, by the way, this character is black. You should notice it. No, it was just like she’s one of the main characters. She happened to be black. When difference, I would say, is visible on screen but becomes invisible in the dialog. For me, it’s a big cornerstone because it just shows that it’s more than recognizing difference. It’s acceptance.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:09:15] As a kid, Adrienne Young also appreciated the show’s depiction of Jodie.

Adrienne Young [00:09:23] I think a lot of time, especially in media, obviously there’s stereotypes and archetypes and all of that that happens in television and film. And just the depiction of black people, where… I think even in Canada, there’s just this idea if you see black people on screen, they’re going to play one of five types. And I just like the fact that this character happened to be black. It’s like, I can exist in this world as whatever it is that I want to be. And the point is that the color of my skin, that’s one aspect of me. But that’s not what’s defining this relationship between me and this other person. And I think that’s an important lesson to learn, especially at a young age.

Kim Thuy [00:10:12] That it’s just normal to be. Yeah, whoever we are.

Adrienne Young [00:10:15] You can be friends with this white mannequin man, and you can be friends with this puppet mouse. And you’re just talking to me like a person. We’re interacting just like people do. It’s cool that you’re like this because you’re black. It’s like, no, that wasn’t a conversation. She was just a woman.

Kim Thuy [00:10:32] And I’m just cool.

Adrienne Young [00:10:34] And I’m just cool, you know what I mean? I just work here.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:10:37] Adrienne says Jodie’s influence stayed with her throughout her adolescence.

Adrienne Young [00:10:43] I did go through that stereotypical upbringing where you weren’t black enough for the black group of kids, but you were … you acted too white for that. It was one of those things. And I never felt ashamed of myself. I’ve had low self-esteem for most of my life, but one of the things I’ve never been ashamed or felt low about myself was the fact that I was black. But one of the things that I realized I learned was in seeing her exist in this environment where being black wasn’t her downfall, it wasn’t a negative, it wasn’t anything, I was able to exist in this world, just as me. And I hung around with the people who accepted me, and I didn’t really care about the people who didn’t.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:11:29] Olivier says another standout example of Today’s Special teaching inclusion was an episode that featured a child with cerebral palsy.

Dr. Olivier Coté [00:11:38] It was respectful, and it was also showing to children watching the program that, even though this child is non-verbal, is disabled in some ways, that it’s not because he’s not able to speak that he doesn’t have intelligence. This show just showed to children how important it is to respect people with different characteristics. It was telling children it should be one of your friends and not one of the people you wouldn’t want to be with. And you know, we are in the 1980s. It’s not something that was produced in 2020-ish. And what I like about it is, like, this [child] became the hero of the episode and his difference was normalize in a way. It was not treated like “if you’re different, you’re in the margin of the story.” We’re just talking about you, but you know… he was at the center of this story. They were normalizing his difference.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:12:37] Nerene herself said she appreciated how Today’s special taught viewers how to deal with complicated feelings. Something fans still remember.

Nerene Virgin [00:12:46] Having people come up to you who are in their 40s saying, you know, “My family, we were going through an upheaval at the time and you did a show on moving and that really helped. It brought me comfort.” Or,  “My grandmother passed away, and you did the show on death, where Muffy had the butterfly that died, and it helped me to understand death, the sort of the… finality.” But then moving on from that, you know, you have no idea. And as you said, how important it is to tell our stories because there’s such a connectedness with others out there.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:13:18] Today’s special was a big cultural export for Canada. It became one of the most successful programs on the U.S. network Nickelodeon. Today’s Special was so popular, Nickelodeon continued to air reruns into the 90s, years after the show wrapped  production. But a lot has changed since then.

Dr. Olivier Coté [00:13:43] If you want to produce children’s TV, you need to go on the international stage and ask for funding through US partners or European partners. So at the end, what you get is less Canadian content on screen and you’re getting fast-paced content, less direct address, more animation because it’s much easier to sell – globally on the global stage – animation programs, because voice overs are much easier to do. You can produce it in Korean, French, English, whatever language you want.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:14:19] Nerene also noticed a shift in the types of programs being made for kids in recent years.

 

Nerene Virgin [00:14:27] What I see now are a lot of children’s programs that are five minutes, which maybe speaks to what we think is the attention span of a child, or does that exacerbate the short attention span of a child by making the assumption that they can only watch something for five minutes? A lot of the programs our kids see are American, a lot of Japanese animation, and a lot of animation being done here as opposed to real people. And I wonder when it comes, particularly to differences as I see it in ethnicity, culture, ability, all of those things, whether an animated figure has the same impact on a child as a real person. I know that they’ve done a study at OISE, Doctor Lee, who’s a professor at OISE, is part of a global study where they’ve been looking at children and they have learned that children before they’re one year old have decided preferences and decided prejudices when it comes to skin color and having a preference for somebody that looks like them. And that by the time a child is 5 or 6 years of age, those preferences are quite firmly entrenched. Unless we’ve made a point of exposing that child to people that are different, people who look different than they look, different colors, different abilities, that unless they see that on a regular basis and interact with that and are exposed, they develop these prejudices.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:15:55] Although the pace of Canadian children’s TV programs have changed and most are now animated, Olivier says there are still shows being made that are designed to be educational and inclusive. For example, “Dino Dana”, a show about a young Indian girl who’s fascinated by dinosaurs, and “The Adventures of Napkin Man”, which features a superhero who teaches kids how to deal with difficult emotions and be respectful of people’s differences. And although these programs promote inclusion, Olivier hopes Canada’s television industry continues to push for diversity behind the camera, too.

 

Dr. Olivier Coté [00:16:39] Script writing, in the production on sets, post-production. You have more and more people involved that have different backgrounds. And so as such, at the end of the process, all these people are able to tell their own stories on screen, which is really different than just to put a character on screen, which has a big impact. It’s a first step, but the next step for me would be to bring these people off screen as well, and so that they have their own voices, their own power to tell their stories.

 

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:17:16] Before we wrap up, let’s flip back to Today’s Special and find out if Jodie ended up taking that new job.

 

Nerene Virgin [00:17:24] Oh, all this remembering has made me realize one thing. If I leave the store, I’m going to be very unhappy. And what good is a better job if you’re not happy? I am not going to take this job. No, I’m going to stay right where I am and go to work like always. Except if I don’t hurry, I’m going to be late. Oh, thanks for dropping in. You were a big help. It’s always good to have friends when you have a decision to make. Well, I’ll see you at the store soon. And don’t worry. I’ll be there, just like always.

Kim Thuy (Voice Over) [00:18:13] That was Nerene Virgin as Jodie on Today’s Special. Thank you to Nerene’s family for the permission to use those clips of her from a Canadian Museum of History event in 2023. Thanks also to curator Olivier Coté, Today’s Special fan Adrienne Young, and TVOntario for those clips from Today’s special. Thanks for listening to Artifactuality, a podcast from the Canadian Museum of History. I’m Kim Thuy. Artifactuality is produced by Antica Productions. Ann Lang is our producer. Soobin Kim is the researcher. Laura Regehr and Stuart Coxe are Executive Producers at Antica. Mixing and sound design by Alain Derbez. Jenny Ellison, Robyn Jeffrey and Steve McCullough of the Canadian Museum of History are the executive producers of this podcast. Check out historymuseum.ca for more stories, articles and exhibitions from the museum.  For more information about the history of children’s TV in Canada, check out the links in our show notes.